RPClass
Wes says, "So first things first, I'm Wes, this is Krackor. I know alot of you through other characters and I'm glad even some of you seasoned folk have come to the class! Ok, now that introductions are out of the way, let's get right into it!" Wes says, "i thought it would be fun to discuss really bad RP first, that way we can only improve as the class goes on. I'm sure alot of you have seen some really bad poses?" Brance says, "like mine" Wes snickers. everyone was new once! Kartijan has been known to make them ;) Brance says, "Sorry, continue." Wes says, "I think everyone has made bad poses Karti! So, let's talk about some general issues that make for a bad pose, in my opinion. first off, there is the issue of imposing what you think of yourself on other people. Anyone know what I'm talking about with that?" Zalins says, "Powerposing?" Kartijan says, "When you look at me, you feel a need to protect me. (that sort of stuff, yes?)" Takajin says, "As in saying that your character invokes fear onto others, when it really would differ from character to character?" Krackor nods. Wes says, "Exactly! This is VERY annoying to players who may not neccesarily feel that way about your character at all, and you imposing it on them is just annoying." Indren notes its laughable unless you're a Sith or something. And even then it's bad style. Wes says, "Takajin's and Karti's examples are dead on. This is NOT good rp!" Takajin see's it more in Desc's than he does RP. Wes says, "So, I wouldn't go up to Indren and pose something like "Wes moves up slowly behind Indren who feels suddenly very frightened by an evil presence!" Wes says, "yeah we will talk a little bit about that in the desc section" Krackor says, "Its usually very bad to assume that a character will react a certain way to something you do. Never assume. Try to be open-ended about what your character does. Something like 'Looking at Petey, you feel a sudden fear in your bowels and want to run away' would be very bad. I would laugh at it alot." Korolov says, "Nobody is afraid of the Sith." Zalins grins. Wes nods in agreement with Krackor! "So that is one form of power posing. Another is just deciding that you will effect another character in a way they might not agree with. Anyone able to think of an example there?" Sinestra hits Korolov in the head and he dies Korolov says, "Ow." Wes says, "heh, YES! This is BAD" Krackor laughs. "Thats about right." Sinestra bows Kartijan shoots Krackor then dashes behind a crate to avoid return fire. Wes says, "You shouldn't pose anything violent happening to another character withoutt their consent." Wes says, "Not only violent, really anything that effects them specificly in that way." Krackor also nods to Karti, and then sobs quietly. Wes says, "Don't have them suddenly becoming scared, you suddenly hitting them, and them crying about it all in one pose." Wes says, "Heh, yes, that is another thing that will irk almost ANY player. Doing something imposing like that and then not letting them retaliate in anyway. You shouldn't power pose in the first place, and you should definitely not add that sort of thing to your pose so you don't have to deal with the reprecussions." Krackor nods. "If you're going to hit someone, let them know ahead of time and make the last 'action' in your pose the attempt to hit. Let the other player pose their response. Whether you use +check to figure out the best response or agree on something OOCly beforehand and then RP it out, you should never assume the outcome of something like that." Wes says, "This is probably an extreme case though. This should inclue little things too, like posing a pie hitting them in the face etc. While it is harmless that character is not their for you to use as an action figure without their consent." Wes says, "If you're fighting someone ICly, definitely do not pose a successful hit unless they have agreed to it." Indren notes its best to workout any competative RP, such as combat, beforehand by using OOC discussion. Krackor nods to Indren. Takajin says, "unless you are +checking, then you kind of have to roll with it as you go." Indren chimes in for the floor for just a bit. Wes agrees. "You can get alot of awesome things happening with a few players working together on the outcome of an event. Wes says, "Did you have something you wanted to add indren?" Indren says, "In my experience there are three kinds of combat RP. One is cooperative (worked out beforehand through OOC chat.) The other is by +reqjudge and using +checks and whatnot. The third is a combination of cooperative RP and using +checks to determine the outcome. I like the last one personally." Indren says, "But the point is to work out the Rp beforehand." Wes says, "Yep, you want to make sure everyone is on the same page so really exicting things can happen. And it doesn't have to be scripted, just an outline of what the over all outcome should be is alot of fun and allows alot of freedom" Krackor nods. "I tend to do that too, Indren. Work out the idea for the combat scene with the other player/s OOCly. Whether you're using +checks or just RPing it. That way, everyone has a clear idea of where the scene is going. This doesn't mean scripting the whole thing. Just making sure everyone is on the same page." Wes says, "We could have a whole class on combat but we will just concentrate on the RP aspects, basicly repsect the rule of consent here and you'll have alot more fun. And people will appreciate you more." Wes says, "ok next I want to discuss spelling and grammar in your RP." Kartijan runs and hides? Krackor hugs Karti. "While nobody is required to have a dictionary on hand for their RP, people do like to understand what they are reading. Poses like 'Krackor walks up in teh room and str8 up busts a cap N Wes. Then he st33lz teh wiminz and r00ls j00!' are generally a no-no." Wes smiles at Krati and laughs at Krackor! Right off, I tend to flub things late at night or quite a bit in OOC chat and that is perfectly fine, but if you are consistent in doing that people will not want to RP with you because this is a game of words, we all have to read and understand what other people are saying and when that isn't done clearly it wreaks havoc on our brain. Wes says, "Like Krackor's example, that is annoying to read and likely something you'd find in a really lame chat room RP, or appears of that sort, and how many people here want to RP with a 1337 poser!? Not I!" Krackor nods. "Nobody wants to spend ten minutes trying to figure out the twelve different ways someone else spelled 'there'." Kartijan is here for story, and story isn't good if I can't read it.. Wes says, "Exactly! So spelling is very important." Wes says, "Grammar of course is as well. Now not everyone that plays here speaks english as their first language and that can be difficult so people should be cut some slack" Krackor says, "But we all know that everyone makes mistakes. Everyone that knows me knows that I'm a bit of a spelling and grammar nazi. But I screw up just as much as the next person when my fingers get ahead of my brain. So mistakes are ok. :)" Seneca guesses that makes typing my poses in dutch and running them through Babelfish a bad idea? Wes nods. "Spelling and grammar are some of the most important aspects of this game, to really describe what youre doing and to convey emotion and such is tough but neccesary. If your poses are unreadable and make little sense then there is an issue that must be dealt with. | I dunno about Babelfish Seneca, I haven't ever used it but if it translates well enough so that things can be understood then it seems to be a fine tool. Krackor nods to Wes. "If someone is having troubles, don't just assume that they are stupid. They just might not be familiar with the English language and are having trouble. Offering some helpful advice in a way that won't be offensive is a good way to both make friends and improve that person's RP." Wes says, "Definitely. English is a strange language and tough to learn so some slack of course should be given to people who are not as fluent in english as you might be. But alot of people who speak english as a second language do far better then some of us that speak it all the time and have since we could talk, this is when grammar and spelling should not be an issue at all/ Most MU* clients have spell checkers and you might want to rnu them now and thento polish your poses a bit." Indren notes that some folks just get lazy when they RP too. I'm guilty of that. Kartijan has been known to try to RP when she was not really functional enough for it, or worse, tried to RP then when it came time to pose blank out and end up with 'oneliners' instead of solid, detailed poses :( Krackor grins. "I think everyone has done that a time or two, Karti. I know I have." :) Wes nods. Well, keeping logs is a great idea and gives you something to look back on later, and I guarantee that sometimes you will be like "OMG was that ME posing. EWWW!" But this is a good way to learn. Basicly just make sure you consistently us eproper grammar and spelling. |Yes One liners are poisonous and do happen even to the more seasoned RPers! Indren does want to say that its good to reread their poses before you post them. Sometimes you can work out the kinks or smooth out rough edges like that. Wes says, "Yep, your pose skill and spelling/grammar will be judged by everyone you RP with. You should do your best to put something forward you can be proud of." Wes says, "I also suggest that you may want to take yourself out of a scene instead of letting yourself go with one liners. It is tough to do if you want to be a part of the scene but aren't feeling creative." Wes says, "Most computers have SOME software that will have a spellchecker too." Wes says, "So you can always do your poses in those then check them and then copy and paste" Krackor nods. "Some people write their poses in Word or another program with spellcheck before bringing it over to the MUSH. Which is a good idea." Wes says, "Another trick I find useful since I use SimpleMU is when I am doing a bigger pose I will expand the lower screen so I can read the whole thing as I type." Wes says, "Keeping track of what you've written is something I want to get into next as we discuss pose style and tricks of writing a good pose." Krackor says, "So basically, proofread your poses. Use Word or another program with spellcheck, if you want. And work with other players to optimize your(and their) RP experience!" Seneca says, "And don't use ANSI...." Seneca can't stress that enough. Krackor seconds Seneca. Wes says, "Ansi is ok in a desc or in a room description if it's in small amounts. But not in a pose." Wes says, "Ok let's get into what makes a GOOD pose! Spelling and Grammar are of course big concerns right off." Wes says, "But let's go into style. I want to start with posting two different pose styles I've seen, one is Past Tense posing and the other is Present Tense." Wes says, "A past tense pose would be like "Wes stood up from the table and sauntered over to the bar." Of course this is not a whole pose just shows what I mean in past tense... Present tense would be "Wes stands up and saunters over to the bar." Both are done, past tense less so and is not as accepted but I use it now and then myself." Krackor notes that there is nothing wrong with either style. "Personally, I like present tense. I look at this as a game of things happening as opposed to a prewritten story. So almost all of my poses will be 'Krackor gets up and slaps Wes in the face' and so on and so forth. Zen would note, not to take over or anything, that present tense is much, much more MUSH-standard, and, all things considered, a snappier way to write a pose. There are some middle of the way tenses, and some mixtures that I have seen that are effective, but all the players in the same scene should stick to one general tense, thus present is the way to go. Indren notes that present tense only makes sense for RP. Its something that is happening NOW. Krackor says, "To each his own. Neither is wrong. Present just seems to be the more widely used of the two." Indren says, "Now if you're relating a story or setting a scene, then past tense is great too. It all depends on the situation." Takajin says, "I have seen a variety of the two, though one thing I want to point out is that people should not make a rule of combining past and present tense in their poses." Zalins says, "Switching tenses is considered bad writing." Wes says, "Well, pick a style that you like and that flows well. You don't have to do what everyone else does." Takajin has surprisingly seen it pretty often, and unless there is just cause for it, it tends to keep poses from flowing naturally. Krackor says, "Well, there are some instances where that works. Sometimes, I will combine the two. But usually only if I'm setting a scene. Something like "Tatooine was always a bad place to be. Hot, dry, dangerous. But Krackor always felt at home there." might go in the set. But when I start posing the actual character(usually after a line break), it jumps to present tense." Seneca does that whenever she's trying to fit in by writing present-tense. Halfway through, I fall back into my habits and switch to past-tense. Wouldn't have happened if there weren't a MUSH, so I demand the RPA take responsibility for that! Wes says, "Pick a style that is fun to read, flows well and gives other people stuff to work with which is the next segment. Giving your scene partner stuff to work with!" Wes says, "but before I do that are there any more comments on past and present tense?" Krackor says, "Pick whichever makes you feel the most comfortable and run with it. But if the other players in the scene ask that poses be in present tense, try and work something out so that the scene flows well." Zen says, "Use present." Indren notes the whole point of the exercise is to get your message accross. Korolov says, "Yeah, but flow can mean the difference between a mediocre scene and a great scene." Wes says, "ok let's move on to giving your scene partner stuff to use." Wes says, "While it is all well to do your own thing, it is nice to offer someone in a scene with you a bone. If you sit there posing for yourself and not giving them anything to work off of the scene will not be very good and I for one get very frustrated when people pose in their own little world." Indren agrees, "Praise God for these words of wisdom!" Wes says, "Basicly think of it as giving them openings to RP with you. If you sit there talking to your NPC rodian friend the whole scene so quietly that no one can hear you are not offering a way in to RP with you." Wes says, "Some ways to give people ins for one is to work out a scene toegther before hand with a loose set of circumstances to follow. But alot of times people will just show up and want to RP and this is fine, I think you should be willing to RP with anyone who hasn't proven to be truly awful to deal with!" Krackor nods. "I've been in many a cantina RP where there are four or five players, and each one is posing 'Mr. X sits at his table drinking.' and 'Mr. Y mumbles something to his Wookiee pal and goes back to his ale'. Those help no one. Wes says, "yeah they offer no natural way to invite others into RPing with you, thereby making them have to bump into you, or buy a drink next to you and strike up conevrsation or whatever" Krackor says, "A way to toss a player something to work with could be this. Take Mr. X and Y from my last example. Neither of them are interacting with each other. But if Mr. X suddenly lept up from his table and started babbling incoherently, Mr. Y would be sure to notice and this could start something. Or Mr. Y could turn from his Wookiee pal and walk over to X, thinking he knows him." Wes says, "Yep, the idea here is to give someone a sort of unspoken invite to RP with you." Indren has had great luck with using NPCs to spur RP interaction. Right now I've got an NPC Gamorrean Clan out to kill me. Thus, when things are going slow in the Cantina at times, I'll have them try to get me. Folks usually hate Gamorreans and help out. Basically, use the innate characteristics of the place you're Rping in to help you do it, or like Krackor says, use something unique to your character to spur it. Ranabi didn't know you were allowed to create NPC things like that. Krackor nods. "There are plenty of ways to initiate RP with someone. You just have to use your imagination and not be afraid to interact. That is, afterall, what we are here to do." Indren has seen medical problems work well. Bar fights and just plain curiosity about someone's suit. Krackor says, "Something like what Indren is doing is fine. But creating a squad of 50 NPC thugs that follow you around all the time is generally a nono" Wes says, "I don't think there is any problem with you creating an NPC that is primarily there for you to spur RP with as long as you aren't using them to do something you shouldn't IE attacking a player with one (unless it's agreed upon that you will come in and help them fight the NPC etc). NPCs are in poses all the time. When you set you likely mention the surrounding sentients." Krackor says, "I think its usually best to steer clear of having NPC escorts. Causes too many problems." Wes says, "yeah don't use them actively, they should be there as color for a story" Indren notes that basically the rule of thumb on NPCs is thus: Don't create an army you don't ICly have just because you can pose them because it gives you A: An unfair advantage and B: Is considered a might twinkish. Krackor nods. "NPCs are always around. A shifty Bothan in the corner of the Cantina. Or an obese Ewok passed out under the beer tap." Wes says, "But basicly, what we're saying is that you should create ways that make it EASY for someone just walking into your scene to get involved." Krackor says, "These are fine. But yeah, unless you ICly have access to and reason to have armed guards or something similar, don't pose having them." Indren nodders and says, "Someone once explained to me, when I first started, that each PC is to be considered someone above and beyond the norm. An extraordinary soul. NPCs are the normal folks. Wes says, "Don't make them struggle for an in. There are many ways you can throw them a bone, perhaps nod to them as they enter, or if they're particularly interesting to you buy them a drink or ask them if they are with such and such. Just give people a way in." Krackor says, "Initiating a conversation is one of the easiest things you can do to get RP started. Don't be afraid to go up to someone and get things rolling." Wes says, "Any questions/comments there?" Krackor says, "If that person doesn't ICly have access to STs, then they aren't there. But if, say, Korolov came in with a squad of STs, you should act accordingly." Ranabi says, "So in that case you /would/ be able to attack the STs?" Krackor says, "Well, if you wanted to be shot or arrested, by all means go for it. :P" Wes says, "If they actually had them, yes, but that might be a bad plan!" Wes says, "Let's get into descriptions! These are alot of fun and tell people alot about you, they can hint at who you are, what you do for a living, your tastes and dislikes and your fashions sense. Let's start with bad descs!" Krackor says, "EXAMPLE: The guy standing in front of you is totally bad. He has like, 12 blaster rifles and about a hundred thermal detonators. He makes you feel scared when you look at him." Wes says, "As we said earlier imposing something in your desc on someone is rude and annoying. An example might be "Wes is so handsome you think you could easily fall in love with him. He makes you feel protected and looks on you with respect"" Krackor says, "Spelling and grammar is also important in your desc. If a player can't understand what your character looks like, how can you expect them to RP with you?" Wes says, "Remember this is a desc of someone looking at you, that can't tell by looking that you are the best martial artist ever and that you are feelings like assassinating Malign." Wes says, "Basicly a desc is what someone sees of your outside, not how skilled you are or how you feel inside though having a consistent frown or something similar is ok because it can be seen by looking." Wes says, "In my opinion a good description should include how your face and hair look, maybe your skin and definitely what you are wearing." Krackor says, "Another thing that you shouldn't do is add things that aren't there. While there isn't really a rule that I know of about this, I'm slightly annoyed by it. My rule is, if you don't have it coded and in your inventory, you don't have it. This doesn't exactly count for all things. Of course we don't have coded clothing and whatnot. I'm really just talking about weapons and armor. If you like Kylans, great. Put one in your desc /after/ you buy one. If you want thermal detonators, excellent. RP hard and try to find out where you can purchase one before adding some to your desc." Wes says, "Yep, Don't desc yourself some bounty hunter armor or some crazy blaster you don't have, descs should cover things like the way you look, not so much your equipment and should definitely not suggest things like weapons you don't have codedly." Krackor says, "And if there is something that you really want that we don't have coded, speak to an admin. They are pretty easy to work with, as long as your requests are reasonable." Wes says, "Yep, things have been coded upon request in the past, not saying you will definitely get what you want coded but sending in an application to the RPA is a good way to get something cool that doesn't currently exist." Wes says, "Ok, ansi in descs..." Krackor says, "Also, descs don't have to be eleventy-twelve pages long. Just a paragraph or two is enough. Just describe what you look like(hair, eyes, skin. scars? tattoos? birthmarks? clothes, shoes, jewelry.)" Wes says, "A very small amount of ansi in a desc is ok, but you shouldn't go over board, it hurts peoples eyes and doesn't look good. usually use ansi to emphasize a particular object or article of clothing, even a tattoo..." Wes says, "Also, do not put your descs all in caps! Here is a real life example of one! "A TALLMANODODO MAN WITH LONG BLACK HAIR AND TOTALLY BLACK EYES IS LOOKING AT YOU BUT IN A SENCE ISN'T." Wes says, "This is a BAD desc and covers just about everything we've talked about in bad descs" Wes says, "bad spelling, caps, not descriptive really and imposing things on the viewer" Zalins says, "That's awesomely bad." Wes says, "yes and this is from a real descrip too!" Wes says, "Here's one more just for fun, an actual desc: A good looking corellian wearing a base ball cap,a white T shirt,a leather vest, a good Levi's belt, blue jeens, and some steel toed boots. He has blue hair, blue eyes, and other than that he just looks like a normal corellian. He is just looking for a job makeing credits as a pilot. He looks at you and says:"Hi hows it going?" Indren says, "Some folks forget that SW happened in a galaxy Far Far away....not in the OC." Wes says, "This is another horrible desc, it imposes things, has him SPEAKING to you in his desc and tells you that he is looking for work which is not something you can tell by looking at someone. yes, maybe they don't have alot of money, or perhaps just came from a job interview but not this." Krackor says, "And you should never have speech in your desc. :P" Indren says, "Remember to be themeatic when writing your desc." Wes nods to Indren. Indren says, "No baseball caps. There is no baseball in SW." Indren notes +desc/help is something everyone should embrace. Indren says, "A good desc, other than helping people get an idea of what your guy look like, is a way for folks to know what kind of Rp to expect from you to. (to some degree). Someone who puts ZERO time into their desc will probably put that much time into their poses." Krackor says, "Definately, Indren." Wes says, "Ok that pretty much covers descs I think." Wes says, "Any other questions/commanets?" Indren notes that if you are having a hard time coming up with a desc, find a picture of someone you'd pattern your character's looks off of and describe him/her to yourself. Then put that in text form. Wes says, "Great suggestion Indren, I do that too :)" Wes says, "Any thing else>= before we stop?" Wes says, "Alright then, that wraps up this class! Thanks for coming everyone!" Category:Interaction Guides